Father Filipe Couto reveals political connections that make people an authentic "spectator". In Couto's view, there is a bit of Frelimo and Renamo vice versa. It is that Dhlakama is the leader that Frelimo wants to see straight ahead Renamo, because the changes would be unpredictable. The priest, involved in the movement of Marxist revolution in the 70s, did not hesitate to invite young people to "dig" the story, questioning the touted "facts" and find some (un) truths that accompany the 40 years of independence.
After 40 years of national independence, we have as greatest legacy?
Filipe Couto (FC): Who was born when independence began, now has 40 years, can now be father to sons, in this case perhaps can be a grandfather. He spent a lot of time and some things have changed. It is at this time that Mozambique began to be called independent, sovereign, and began to say that those within this territory, as they say, from the Rovuma to Maputo and from the Indian Zumbo, must have self-esteem and must decide their destinations, and this is most repeated by those who represent the Mozambique Liberation Front (Frelimo).
Else part we have within the political, Renamo, where the leader it says is the father of what is called democracy. And there are other parties that I respect who are in opposition and did not enter the parliament, and we MDM that entered the parliament. All these parties are within this Mozambique.
Politically, Frelimo in the third congress said he became sole, perhaps anticipating that there would be multi-partisan. Renamo believes is forcing the Frelimo would be democratic or dictator. These are the political speeches that we have in these 40 years.
The purpose of the national liberation struggle, to liberate the land and man, was met and safeguarded?
FC: First, talking about land, people who are in rural areas where they have the hut can be said that what little they have that could cultivate or are cultivating no one can take away. They can be removed, but not so easily. They have land but do not have the means to make agriculture and in these 40 years the land was at that early stage that leaves to be desired.
And the man?
FC: If I ask a student here in Maputo it is free, what will I say?
Maybe so. But he has had room to participate in decisions or in public spaces involved in decisions that concern you?
FC: If you have participated in decisions that were taken, to make schools, building roads, cause there planes. Some things made were necessary. It was almost a case of emergency. For example: who could ask whether schools should be done?
Are you saying that all that has been done in recent decades is the will of the people, at least in education, health, nutrition and well-being?
FC: Do you think that education, health, food is enough? I do not think we have to move forward. But this advance, when we said we have to move forward, there is awareness that we have not progressed as it should be, if it exists, and I think so, it shows that after 40 years some things must be overcome, that must transform.
Some things are not or we did not yet gone beyond.
FC: The story of Mozambique in these 40 years was coded. For what?
It was written partially. That's it?
FC: First, we needed to start as we started. But when people grow up, they begin to have a certain curiosity. What does the story?
That the national liberation process began between the guerrilla forces of Frelimo and the Armed Forces of Portugal!
FC: The people are pleased to say that is the Frelimo?
Because there are more players?
FC: When a person grows and learns that what their parents taught as history, is very simple, you need to supplement. You can not explain what a plane to an engineering student explains to a child. After 40 years of history we had with much serenity, what we need to do?
Deepen the explanation?
FC: That's a big problem we have, but a problem that will mess with all that is taught in schools, universities and other research. If history is memory, what should we remember? What is said about the early history of liberation comes to you? We have to reform the way to teach the history of Mozambique. We have complementary. What we have in the history of Urias Simango, Lazarus Kavandame Paul Gumane?@@
They were traitors. Is that true?
FC: Are you satisfied with the answer that they were traitors That's what has to talk, discuss it. Traitor why? What he did or did not do?
You've been there. They have an answer?
FC: In 40 years we've been to calm you. Now we're old and you are free. Now grown up, find out a little more.
Need for new brains
It is pertinent to discuss the past?
FC: For me this may not interest, perhaps because it is old, I'm 76, might get dirty, but for the grandchildren of Uriah are in Mozambique, they want to know.
I want to say that these forty years feels the need to have new brains, which are able to think, not what was said to them when they were babies. All these people who were born in that period, if the brain is not washed may start thinking in a more correcta.Mas way maybe that does not have importance for those in the fields when they heard that Mozambique is free and now the Portuguese did not have more because Mozambicans themselves are free.
But who will investigate this? Certainly older will not investigate this, first because some do not. There are problems that are out there that are not problems of young people and do not know who goes to put these problems in the newspapers, television, etc.
I mean the truth will be exposed when the protagonists no longer are?
FC: It is one possible interpretation. But it can not be true, can be to appear brave young men to question this and see that the way to see it is not true. Because there are people who have the "tomatoes" in the hands. For example, where he died Eduardo Mondlane?
The official story says that he died in his office in Dar-Es-Salam. That's true?
FC: I recall that Joaquim Chissano said in one of his speeches that "when Mondlane died on the beach ...". I do not know if he was unaware of what was written in history.
Other necessary reforms?
FC: In the history of how it formed Frelimo is legitimate review to give more emphasis. It gives more emphasis to the National Democratic Union of Mozambique (UDEMANO) than
the African National Union of Mozambique (MANU) is one that remained with Frelimo forces with funding, heritage and everything.
The assets that Frelimo has in Zanzibar in Dar-Es-Salam in Mutuara which takes into Massassi, was all the MANU.
Since it considers the reform a task for young people, think the country is young with this capability?
FC: If you doubt that, I do not doubt. We had less capacity for 40 years, no one of those in government had made the university. All were unfinished. What should you do, perhaps, is to begin to change the mentality and say that the work is not only done under a boss.
There are, for example, problems in the justice reforms, we need to have independent lawyers, it is true that the lawyer wants to eat. Well, we'll get there one day, where the attorney will have enough. And if it fulfills the law, will not say do not do it because it will starve.
Provincial authorities: a certain project placed the wrong way.
We have other solutions?
FC: There was this discussion of autonomous provinces. Renamo and the MDM agreed to discuss, but the Frelimo disqualified.
What do you mean with "disqualified"?
FC: What did not accept the debate. But in parliament there are people like Aguiar Mazula, Theodahad Hunguana debating.
That analysis is to posture Renamo?
FC: Renamo has a Frelimo. Frelimo is no longer one cohesive Guebuza hoped that he deceived himself. In fact, if those made speeches, but after that was taken. And Renamo will assimilate some things Frelimo, unfortunately the militaristic part. Renamo will be authoritarian, now you're talking about democratization, she's not thinking about it, I would be in government. Renamo mimics the old Frelimo. At the Frelimo there are people starting to think and know not. It happened in Muxungué, the Dhlakama did not want war.
With this stance that the opposition has can classify Mozambique of multiparty?
FC: Mozambique is a multiparty country because the only party broke up and became several. No supporters of the opposition leaders not crossed your mind, what is the Frelimo. Dhlakama even sent whipping generals.
You think all Mozambicans tread the same path?
FC: When you talk about things, must assume some things are more or less well, even being wrong. I start from the assumption that, in general, even when we only look our stomach, we have not stopped working for the common interest. Because if I'm hungry and end up getting sick, it is not common interest that I'm sick, it is good for everyone if I am in good health. We must assume that, but do not go forward.
Renamo says it does what it does for the people and the government as well. However, each "pulls the coal to its sardines."
FC: It's good that Let's draw for our sardines, but if I want something I have to leave for some. The Guebuza error, if he did it, hurt. If he had done as Eduardo dos Santos, who gave a lot to the other, it would have been a little better.
Never be so idealistic. We can not win for us if we want everything to us. Imagine if everything is in Maputo was his, many would come against you. If you want all safely should share with their neighbors.
Walk towards the same goal would also learn this sense of sharing?
FC: This is a route, you can not work for others if you have nothing. Also if you have nothing, you can not give everything and you get nothing. You have to learn balance. That is why it is said that a good entrepreneur pays tax, gives facilities to their employees and pay salaries.
In a more concrete context, Frelimo and Renamo have the same goal?
FC: They have.
Because we are in a conflict situation if we have the same objective? It would not be easy to find common ground and walk?
FC: Is that common points are never fixed, change. Why Dhlakama still alive? First, because Frelimo know who Dhlakama, but do not know who the other after Dhlakama. Second, Frelimo has given something to Dhlakama and he received not only today. Frelimo knows that Dhlakama knows how to receive and if you upset know how to ask. Has the problem that when you ask, threat with weapons. As happened in the war Muxungué?
I would not have been ignored your request?
FC: I said are not fixos.Construíram points together some 20 years of "peace", and built together to war Muxungué. When was Congress Pemba?
In 2010, what does that mean?
FC: When did Congress, Guebuza passes from Nampula to Pemba, meets Dhlakama. And Dhlakama lies with Manuel Araújo in Quelimane, the conference ends and Dhlakama goes Santugira and stay there. Start conflicts, then we are at war. If the conflict continued there would be elections. Guebuza was interested in all there were no elections. That's when everyone started to call for peace.
After all, what are the real interests of the Renamo president?
FC: I do not want to get in his life without the undisputed leader or president, but it knows it can not and does not arrive, he will not be replaced by another in Renamo and Frelimo help.
That's why I drove Raul Domingos? Frelimo feared Raul Domingos?
FC: Nope. But Frelimo knows that Dhlakama is the best minister who has.
Could be clearer?
FC: Dhlakama always helped Frelimo to stay in power. Because when you need to make the game of Frelimo. Dhlakama has repeatedly denied that Renamo was to municipalities. And when Davis Simango said he would, Dhlakama took Simango party. Not served the Frelimo?
Renamo is Mozambican army in Angola.
You can do the analysis of the two speeches, the Dhlakama and the Nyusi?
FC: I was not when they met. What they said I do not know. But Elias Dhlakama is brigadier general and head of the reservists was in Angola representing the Mozambican government. Why it was not the Grace Chongo? He said that because of illness. Then in Angola, a general, deputy chief of the General Staff, whose party belongs is Renamo is the Mozambican army?
This is a game of masks?
FC: Do you know why the International Conference Centre Joaquim Chissano things do not go. Renamo guerrillas without having made Muxungué, was combined. I do not know why you have difficulties to understand it. I said the other day that all groups, to make what is called conversations or dialogue, at one time, when not serving, should be modified, superseded, and found other ways to work, rather than to deceive.
Who was wrong about Muxungué? The people?
FC: The people are not being fooled, the people have questions: how Dhlakama was receiving in Santugira, trucks every day, had food, cold beers, etc.? How does the Gorongosa down an airplane to treat Dhlakama?
Nyusi have different expressions but that is not enough.
Think Mozambique has room for all parties that have emerged over the years?
FC: I will answer this way: if you want a ton of premium quality bananas can not plant ten banana. Should plant lots of banana trees, where there must be good banana trees, there must be those that are going to be stolen, there must be banana trees that will rot.
Young people are well represented in the government of Filipe Nyusi?
FC: Felipe Nyusi is a different thing, I will not say by age. But the origin, studies, perhaps no more than Mondlane, but studied more than all the others. He campaigned saying they did not want to party recommendations. It is a government where the president has new expressions, but the problem is there where I said that there are things to overcome.
The economy after 40 years of national independence
We had improvement in the economy over the years?
FC: No one disputes that we had throughout this time, many infrastructure. See how many buildings we have in the city, the construction field, we have hotels and can speak in public and private universities, can also speak of the amount of schools, universities. All this is within 40 years, but is within this 40 years where media say the country is wrong. It is within these 40 years, poverty has increased and there are few who have. Perhaps in the future we will have a solution for that.
You can have a really friendly government?
FC: Do you think you have? Because he does not support? If he does not accept that you enter, why not suggest to him as you should let in? I never asked the government of Mozambique to do something for me, but I did for the government and sometimes did not agree with me.
And when he did not agree?
FC: I was in my corner, I was rector of the University Eduardo Mondlane (UEM) and left early. I spent four years in EMU and was taken away. I think the government thought it was doing things I should not.
But let's see together some things we should overcome. There was talk of fighting absolute poverty, but we gave it a step?
Perhaps even in the cities, but in the districts does not.
FC: The problem is that for Niassa power flow to their districts needs to be decentralized. Is it to be what is in Nelspruit. All is in Pretoria. The parliament is in Cape Town. We could follow suit, putting the parliament there and the central government here.
To solve agricultural problems in the districts would need to decentralize. The former Minister of State Administration, Aguiar Mazula, presented a program saying that the governor should be elected and not appointed. We want to distinguish between party and government. We would have to get used to a governor who is governor for all, and not those who have the "red card". Man Nelspruit do things without having Jacob Zuma orders.(J.DEBATE/ N Mucandze)