Father
Filipe Couto reveals political connections that make people an authentic
"spectator". In Couto's view, there is a bit of Frelimo and Renamo
vice versa. It is that Dhlakama is the leader that Frelimo wants to see
straight ahead Renamo, because the changes would be unpredictable. The priest,
involved in the movement of Marxist revolution in the 70s, did not hesitate to
invite young people to "dig" the story, questioning the touted
"facts" and find some (un) truths that accompany the 40 years of
independence.
After
40 years of national independence, we have as greatest legacy?
Filipe
Couto (FC): Who was born when independence began, now has 40 years, can now be
father to sons, in this case perhaps can be a grandfather. He spent a lot of
time and some things have changed. It is at this time that Mozambique began to
be called independent, sovereign, and began to say that those within this
territory, as they say, from the Rovuma to Maputo and from the Indian Zumbo,
must have self-esteem and must decide their destinations, and this is most
repeated by those who represent the Mozambique Liberation Front (Frelimo).
Else
part we have within the political, Renamo, where the leader it says is the
father of what is called democracy. And there are other parties that I respect
who are in opposition and did not enter the parliament, and we MDM that entered
the parliament. All these parties are within this Mozambique.
Politically,
Frelimo in the third congress said he became sole, perhaps anticipating that
there would be multi-partisan. Renamo believes is forcing the Frelimo would be
democratic or dictator. These are the political speeches that we have in these
40 years.
The
purpose of the national liberation struggle, to liberate the land and man, was
met and safeguarded?
FC:
First, talking about land, people who are in rural areas where they have the
hut can be said that what little they have that could cultivate or are
cultivating no one can take away. They can be removed, but not so easily. They
have land but do not have the means to make agriculture and in these 40 years
the land was at that early stage that leaves to be desired.
And
the man?
FC:
If I ask a student here in Maputo it is free, what will I say?
Maybe
so. But he has had room to participate in decisions or in public spaces
involved in decisions that concern you?
FC:
If you have participated in decisions that were taken, to make schools,
building roads, cause there planes. Some things made were necessary. It was
almost a case of emergency. For example: who could ask whether schools should
be done?
Are
you saying that all that has been done in recent decades is the will of the
people, at least in education, health, nutrition and well-being?
FC:
Do you think that education, health, food is enough? I do not think we have to
move forward. But this advance, when we said we have to move forward, there is
awareness that we have not progressed as it should be, if it exists, and I
think so, it shows that after 40 years some things must be overcome, that must
transform.
Some
things are not or we did not yet gone beyond.
For
example?
FC:
The story of Mozambique in these 40 years was coded. For what?
It
was written partially. That's it?
FC:
First, we needed to start as we started. But when people grow up, they begin to
have a certain curiosity. What does the story?
That
the national liberation process began between the guerrilla forces of Frelimo
and the Armed Forces of Portugal!
FC:
The people are pleased to say that is the Frelimo?
Because
there are more players?
FC:
When a person grows and learns that what their parents taught as history, is
very simple, you need to supplement. You can not explain what a plane to an
engineering student explains to a child. After 40 years of history we had with
much serenity, what we need to do?
Deepen
the explanation?
FC:
That's a big problem we have, but a problem that will mess with all that is
taught in schools, universities and other research. If history is memory, what
should we remember? What is said about the early history of liberation comes to
you? We have to reform the way to teach the history of Mozambique. We have
complementary. What we have in the history of Urias Simango, Lazarus Kavandame
Paul Gumane?@@
They
were traitors. Is that true?
FC:
Are you satisfied with the answer that they were traitors That's what has to
talk, discuss it. Traitor why? What he did or did not do?
You've
been there. They have an answer?
FC:
In 40 years we've been to calm you. Now we're old and you are free. Now grown
up, find out a little more.
Need
for new brains
It
is pertinent to discuss the past?
FC:
For me this may not interest, perhaps because it is old, I'm 76, might get
dirty, but for the grandchildren of Uriah are in Mozambique, they want to know.
I
want to say that these forty years feels the need to have new brains, which are
able to think, not what was said to them when they were babies. All these
people who were born in that period, if the brain is not washed may start
thinking in a more correcta.Mas way maybe that does not have importance for
those in the fields when they heard that Mozambique is free and now the
Portuguese did not have more because Mozambicans themselves are free.
But
who will investigate this? Certainly older will not investigate this, first
because some do not. There are problems that are out there that are not
problems of young people and do not know who goes to put these problems in the
newspapers, television, etc.
I
mean the truth will be exposed when the protagonists no longer are?
FC:
It is one possible interpretation. But it can not be true, can be to appear
brave young men to question this and see that the way to see it is not true.
Because there are people who have the "tomatoes" in the hands. For
example, where he died Eduardo Mondlane?
The
official story says that he died in his office in Dar-Es-Salam. That's true?
FC:
I recall that Joaquim Chissano said in one of his speeches that "when
Mondlane died on the beach ...". I do not know if he was unaware of what
was written in history.
Other
necessary reforms?
FC:
In the history of how it formed Frelimo is legitimate review to give more
emphasis. It gives more emphasis to the National Democratic Union of Mozambique
(UDEMANO) than
the
African National Union of Mozambique (MANU) is one that remained with Frelimo
forces with funding, heritage and everything.
The
assets that Frelimo has in Zanzibar in Dar-Es-Salam in Mutuara which takes into
Massassi, was all the MANU.
Since
it considers the reform a task for young people, think the country is young
with this capability?
FC:
If you doubt that, I do not doubt. We had less capacity for 40 years, no one of
those in government had made the university. All were unfinished. What should
you do, perhaps, is to begin to change the mentality and say that the work is
not only done under a boss.
There
are, for example, problems in the justice reforms, we need to have independent
lawyers, it is true that the lawyer wants to eat. Well, we'll get there one
day, where the attorney will have enough. And if it fulfills the law, will not
say do not do it because it will starve.
Provincial
authorities: a certain project placed the wrong way.
We
have other solutions?
FC:
There was this discussion of autonomous provinces. Renamo and the MDM agreed to
discuss, but the Frelimo disqualified.
What
do you mean with "disqualified"?
FC:
What did not accept the debate. But in parliament there are people like Aguiar
Mazula, Theodahad Hunguana debating.
That
analysis is to posture Renamo?
FC: Renamo has a Frelimo. Frelimo is no longer one cohesive Guebuza hoped that
he deceived himself. In fact, if those made speeches, but after that was taken.
And Renamo will assimilate some things Frelimo, unfortunately the militaristic
part. Renamo will be authoritarian, now you're talking about democratization,
she's not thinking about it, I would be in government. Renamo mimics the old
Frelimo. At the Frelimo there are people starting to think and know not. It
happened in Muxungué, the Dhlakama did not want war.
With
this stance that the opposition has can classify Mozambique of multiparty?
FC:
Mozambique is a multiparty country because the only party broke up and became
several. No supporters of the opposition leaders not crossed your mind, what is
the Frelimo. Dhlakama even sent whipping generals.
You
think all Mozambicans tread the same path?
FC:
When you talk about things, must assume some things are more or less well, even
being wrong. I start from the assumption that, in general, even when we only
look our stomach, we have not stopped working for the common interest. Because
if I'm hungry and end up getting sick, it is not common interest that I'm sick,
it is good for everyone if I am in good health. We must assume that, but do not
go forward.
Renamo
says it does what it does for the people and the government as well. However,
each "pulls the coal to its sardines."
FC:
It's good that Let's draw for our sardines, but if I want something I have to
leave for some. The Guebuza error, if he did it, hurt. If he had done as
Eduardo dos Santos, who gave a lot to the other, it would have been a little
better.
Never
be so idealistic. We can not win for us if we want everything to us. Imagine if
everything is in Maputo was his, many would come against you. If you want all
safely should share with their neighbors.
Walk
towards the same goal would also learn this sense of sharing?
FC:
This is a route, you can not work for others if you have nothing. Also if you
have nothing, you can not give everything and you get nothing. You have to
learn balance. That is why it is said that a good entrepreneur pays tax, gives
facilities to their employees and pay salaries.
In
a more concrete context, Frelimo and Renamo have the same goal?
FC:
They have.
Because
we are in a conflict situation if we have the same objective? It would not be
easy to find common ground and walk?
FC:
Is that common points are never fixed, change. Why Dhlakama still alive? First,
because Frelimo know who Dhlakama, but do not know who the other after
Dhlakama. Second, Frelimo has given something to Dhlakama and he received not
only today. Frelimo knows that Dhlakama knows how to receive and if you upset
know how to ask. Has the problem that when you ask, threat with weapons. As happened
in the war Muxungué?
I
would not have been ignored your request?
FC:
I said are not fixos.Construíram points together some 20 years of
"peace", and built together to war Muxungué. When was Congress Pemba?
In
2010, what does that mean?
FC:
When did Congress, Guebuza passes from Nampula to Pemba, meets Dhlakama. And
Dhlakama lies with Manuel Araújo in Quelimane, the conference ends and Dhlakama
goes Santugira and stay there. Start conflicts, then we are at war. If the
conflict continued there would be elections. Guebuza was interested in all
there were no elections. That's when everyone started to call for peace.
After
all, what are the real interests of the Renamo president?
FC:
I do not want to get in his life without the undisputed leader or president,
but it knows it can not and does not arrive, he will not be replaced by another
in Renamo and Frelimo help.
That's
why I drove Raul Domingos? Frelimo feared Raul Domingos?
FC:
Nope. But Frelimo knows that Dhlakama is the best minister who has.
Could be clearer?
FC:
Dhlakama always helped Frelimo to stay in power. Because when you need to make
the game of Frelimo. Dhlakama has repeatedly denied that Renamo was to
municipalities. And when Davis Simango said he would, Dhlakama took Simango
party. Not served the Frelimo?
Renamo
is Mozambican army in Angola.
You
can do the analysis of the two speeches, the Dhlakama and the Nyusi?
FC:
I was not when they met. What they said I do not know. But Elias Dhlakama is
brigadier general and head of the reservists was in Angola representing the
Mozambican government. Why it was not the Grace Chongo? He said that because of
illness. Then in Angola, a general, deputy chief of the General Staff, whose
party belongs is Renamo is the Mozambican army?
This
is a game of masks?
FC:
Do you know why the International Conference Centre Joaquim Chissano things do
not go. Renamo guerrillas without having made Muxungué, was combined. I do not
know why you have difficulties to understand it. I said the other day that all
groups, to make what is called conversations or dialogue, at one time, when not
serving, should be modified, superseded, and found other ways to work, rather
than to deceive.
Who
was wrong about Muxungué? The people?
FC:
The people are not being fooled, the people have questions: how Dhlakama was
receiving in Santugira, trucks every day, had food, cold beers, etc.? How does
the Gorongosa down an airplane to treat Dhlakama?
Nyusi
have different expressions but that is not enough.
Think
Mozambique has room for all parties that have emerged over the years?
FC:
I will answer this way: if you want a ton of premium quality bananas can not
plant ten banana. Should plant lots of banana trees, where there must be good
banana trees, there must be those that are going to be stolen, there must be
banana trees that will rot.
Young
people are well represented in the government of Filipe Nyusi?
FC:
Felipe Nyusi is a different thing, I will not say by age. But the origin,
studies, perhaps no more than Mondlane, but studied more than all the others.
He campaigned saying they did not want to party recommendations. It is a
government where the president has new expressions, but the problem is there
where I said that there are things to overcome.
The
economy after 40 years of national independence
We
had improvement in the economy over the years?
FC:
No one disputes that we had throughout this time, many infrastructure. See how
many buildings we have in the city, the construction field, we have hotels and
can speak in public and private universities, can also speak of the amount of
schools, universities. All this is within 40 years, but is within this 40 years
where media say the country is wrong. It is within these 40 years, poverty has
increased and there are few who have. Perhaps in the future we will have a
solution for that.
You
can have a really friendly government?
FC:
Do you think you have? Because he does not support? If he does not accept that
you enter, why not suggest to him as you should let in? I never asked the
government of Mozambique to do something for me, but I did for the government
and sometimes did not agree with me.
And
when he did not agree?
FC:
I was in my corner, I was rector of the University Eduardo Mondlane (UEM) and
left early. I spent four years in EMU and was taken away. I think the
government thought it was doing things I should not.
But
let's see together some things we should overcome. There was talk of fighting
absolute poverty, but we gave it a step?
Perhaps
even in the cities, but in the districts does not.
FC:
The problem is that for Niassa power flow to their districts needs to be
decentralized. Is it to be what is in Nelspruit. All is in Pretoria. The
parliament is in Cape Town. We could follow suit, putting the parliament there
and the central government here.
To
solve agricultural problems in the districts would need to decentralize. The
former Minister of State Administration, Aguiar Mazula, presented a program
saying that the governor should be elected and not appointed. We want to
distinguish between party and government. We would have to get used to a
governor who is governor for all, and not those who have the "red card".
Man Nelspruit do things without having Jacob Zuma orders.(J.DEBATE/ N Mucandze)
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